Automatics make good Organic sinse

So I thought it would be nice to have some kind of a how to get started with autos thread. This is how I use the skills we all talk about here in GCO to grow incredible autos. I will save all the reasons for autos and the politicking for later as the thread progresses. I am currently running my autos as no-till, but I am gonna walk thru a typical new soil/ recycle process.
1. Your soil mix- use the no -till mix as seen at the beginning of the 'no til revisited' thread. Add extra aeration to bring it up to 40%. I add a couple extra things, we can talk about that later on. None are deal breakers.
2. what size containers- I suggest 7gal minimum.
3.what type of containers- There are 2 styles that I really like and work well for me. They are based on common plastic pots and saucers.
7 gallon- for this one I use a hard plastic 7 gal pot. I put 2 inches of lava rock in the bottom and place landscape cloth over this. I also have used screen. The pot is filled on top of the cloth.

IMG_0314 by Organic sinse posted Jul 28, 2016 at 1:48 PM

IMG_0315 by Organic sinse posted Jul 28, 2016 at 1:48 PM

10 gallon- this is my favorite and what I currently run. For these I put 2 inches of lava rock in the bottom, and then place a 10 gal smart pot inside. The smart pot top edges are rolled over on the pot and it is filled normally.

Smart In #10 Rigid by Organic sinse posted Jan 19, 2017 at 2:59 PM

4. filling the pot- When I fill the pot, I fill it with an empty 1-2 quart pot at the top. (I am making a cavity for seed starter.)

Filled 10 10 Sock N Rock by Organic sinse posted Jan 19, 2017 at 2:59 PM

I now remove the orange pot, and fill the cavity with a light mix or seed starter. I use Light Warrior by FF. I have used Jiffy and some others. No matter what time of year it is, I can get the Light warrior. You can certainly make your own, but it needs to be light and extremely lightly amended.
5. Hydrate the materials well- I water with aloe water (1/4 tsp/gal 200x). I use a chapin with the adjustable sprayer set for doing foliars. I hydrate fully and very slowly. I get everything to maximum water holding capacity. This is important for seed germination.
6. Plant seeds in our final container- Make an indentation about 1/4 deep and apply BioAg VAM mychrazae. Place seed on top of mycos and cover up with damp starter mix. (If the seed isn't deep enough, or covered well, you may get part of the shell stuck on the seedling).
7.Cover- I now cover the seed starter center section with a cheap clear saucer turned upside down to make a dome. This happens to fit the orange pot I use to make the seed starter cavity.

IMG_0559[1] by Organic sinse posted May 14, 2017 at 2:19 PM

8. Heat mat- Final step I put the pot on a heat mat under soft light and wait 3 days, then check. In the mean time, LITFA. I peek everyday after 3 days to see if they pop. It seems like if they don't show up in 5 days using this method, they won't show at all. (Remember I use heat mats, can make things faster).

So that's the very start of things. Most common thing that I see go wrong is not getting the soil moist enough during the initial watering. It can't be too wet, but can easily be to dry. Use seed starter! Autos are easily stunted by a fresh soil mix, especially the good mixes we use here.

So its the 3rd day and I peak under the clear saucer and find a seedling. Congrats, this was the hardest part. Right down today's date on your plant label. With autos when we talk about days, we talk about days from emergence of the seedling,( also called days from seed). It doesn't work to think about days any other way.
So now you have a very wet pot, with a very small plant. What to do.I set a led light at 30-36 inches get a breeze going on the seedling and do nothing. You shouldn't need to water for at least a week. I water with aloe water at a rate of 1/4teaspoon aloe(200x) / gal water. Don't overwater. Remember, big pots, let the roots search, don't overwater. I foliar water, as often as I can in seedling stage. It helps with the humidity, and makes the plants stronger, having to hold themselves up wet. It also helps moisten the very top of the soil. If the seedling looks lanky, I gradually lower the light (maybe an inch a day).
As the seedling grows, I let them grow into the light until they get about 24" away. I then maintain that distance till about the end of week 3 (21 days). Now I let the plant grow to 18" from the light.
I'm gonna close out this first post at the end of week 3 (day 21). As a recap, after emergence, we foliared plain water and adjusted lights. Maybe watered a touch of aloe water. Lots of LITFA!
cheers
os

 

So the first post is what I do. Its time to elaborate on why. I'm sure everyone is wondering why in the heck is Sinse starting seeds in great big pots that seem complicated. With autos its really a race. You want them to go, go, go, until they flower. The veg time for the plant isn't up to you, so you have to make the most out of the time you get. Things to avoid are plants getting even slightly root bound, and transplant shock. By starting in the final pot, I have no worry of either of these. I also believe that the sooner a plant is in its final home the better it will do overall. It takes 4-6 weeks to get the microherd up and running from scratch. I feel the sooner the better.
Why the seed starter? A pocket full of seed starter does a couple of things. The light mixes help germination. They also have very low nutes, autos like weak soil during the first 3 weeks.
cheers
os

 

Thanks for the interest guys.
So I skipped over light cycle. The reason that autos are able to do what they do in such a short time period is due to being able to run long days. I have played around with the light cycle, and settled on 20 on, 4 off from seed start to harvest. If you think about it, you get almost 2 flower days at 20 hours of light, compared to 11 or 12. Most of the stories I hear about autos not yielding well, is due to flowering in the same room as photos, and only giving them 12 hours light. It does work, but takes forever, and yields very small amounts of airy bud. Most auto guys just run a single room, and a light proof tent isn't needed. My very first run I did next to a south facing window, with a Mars 144x3 led. It worked awesome. No worry of light pollution causing hermies.
Some guys run 24 hours all the way thru with good results. I feel that the plants benefit from a short break every night. By the way, it doesn't have to be totally dark like with photos. In my greenhouse in the summer, its not totally dark at night. Just kinda almost dusk like.
The long days give a lot of flexibility for caring for your plants.
Gotta run, more to come later.
cheers
os

 

I discussed the first 3 weeks a bit. Now is a good time to talk about the life of an auto. Of course we start with the seedling stage and then ease right into a veg state. The veg state flows right into what I call preflower, or transition if you would. This is when the preflowers form. When all nodes have pre flowers then jump right into full flower. No change in light cycle, the plant decides on its own when it flowers.
I kind of lump it into 2 phases. Veg and flower. This brings up the topic of how long do autos take. What I typically see is this. If a plant vegs for 4 weeks, I expect 4 weeks of flower. If a plant vegs for 6 weeks, I expect 6 weeks of flower. The size of the plant and the yield is relative to the veg time. Longer veg equals larger plants & yield. This why not stunting or stressing plants is so important. If they just stop growing for a week because of stress, That week of veg time is lost. The plant will still flip at say 4 weeks, without its last week of veg. This results in very small plants. They are perfect little plants, but they will be small.

The Sativa/ doms typically take longer than indica/ doms. The Sativa/ doms tend to be like 80-90 day plants. The indicas are usually shorter like 65-75 days. They take longer in my greenhouse than inside, but the plants are bigger.

Starting into the 4th week, what I like to do is begin to use kelp tea with aloe. I use about 1 T kelp a gallon and 1/4 t aloe (200x). I thoroughly foliar the plant. Whats left over can be used on the soil. I do this a couple times a week. On days I don't do this, I foliar plain water. A weak tea of alfalfa is used about now as well. I continue on with the kelp routine ( a couple times a week) until I see signs of preflower.

At this point I top dress with a lot of MY vmc. I will talk about whats in it later on.
The 'notill revisited' water schedule works great starting now too This is where I change up my water schedule. This is what I do. At first sign of preflower I make blue corn sst.

Blue corn sst per 1 gal of water
2 T blue corn malted
1/2 T fulpower
1/4 t aloe (200x)
The freshly malted blue corn goes in the blender. I slowly add water while blending 5 minutes. Next I add
fulpower and at the last second the aloe. I add water to make a gallon. I then filter thru a paint filter bag and water thru the chapin.
I do this once a week.
At this time I switch up my kelp tea a bit. I grind up 2T (per gal water) malted barley. I add this to my kelp tea and let it bubble for 2 hours. I then add 1/2T (per gallon water) fulpower, and 1/4 t aloe (200x). I filter this and put it in the chapin. I foliar this and drench what is left over. I continue this routine with plain water in between as needed. I only use fulpower the first 4 teas, I discontinue its use after that. I continue this tea routine thru flower until I see the first signs of hairs turning red. I then use plain water the rest of the grow.
Gotta run, more to come later. (There will be fresh pics for the next discussion).
os

 

In the last post, I was talking a bit about veg times, and how the length on veg time is directly proportional to plant size and end yield. I currently have some specimans growing that were 4, 5, and 6 week veg plants.
What I am going to do here, is begin to show the finished or almost finished plants, and then as they are harvested, start new seeds, the same day, in the same pots, and illustrate the whole growing process.
Here is a gal that was a 4 week veg plant. This pic is from day 58, there is one bud that is a little behind, but we will see how she looks in a couple more days. This is a crtical +2.0 auto from dinafem.

IMG_0004 by Organic sinse posted Oct 29, 2017 at 9:13 PM

IMG_0002 by Organic sinse posted Oct 29, 2017 at 9:12 PM

My room is a little packed right now so I apologize for the poor pics. This girl will be harvested somewhere between 60-65 days. I'm guessing she will be just under a qp.

This is a pic of a close cousin. This plant vegged for 5 weeks. She is a blue critical. Note a lot more development and bulkiness.

IMG_0007 by Organic sinse posted Oct 29, 2017 at 9:57 PM

This girl has about 2 more weeks left, and is also at 58 days in the pic. This should be about a 75 day plant.
I tried real hard to get a good comparison shot of the 2 side by side, to compare what is normally a very similar plant, but one showing 4 weeks of veg and the other 5 weeks of veg. The development of the lower branches is much more, in that extra week. This one will be a great yielder, ibet 6-8 oz.
Here is a side by side of the 4 week vs 5 week veg.

IMG_0006 by Organic sinse posted Oct 29, 2017 at 9:55 PM

Down the road a week or so when I have cleared out the room a bit, I will show the 6 week veg plants. These however will not be similar types of plants, as the 6 week veg plants are sativa doms.
gotta run
cheers
os

 

Thanks for stopping by Dharvey, do you see any pros or cons for 24 hour light cycle? One of the minor things that I like about 20 hour light cycle is that it allows my temps and humidity to swing around a little more naturally. Its not quite so important for me now, as I have been able to achieve cooler temps and higher humidity levels through some room refinements. Previously, it helped a lot to let the room cool some during the dark cycle.
cheers
os

 

I agree about the fast flower times. With regards to humidity in flower, I'm with ya. In the past during the winter months I would typically be running that low of humidity. During flower stage it doesn't seem to have to much of a bad effect. Less overall weight, and possibly buds being more airy. But overall the quality is still good.
Where I see the problems with low humidity is during veg. Something I was gonna touch on was humidity during veg. One trait that all autos seem to have, is they tend to flip to flower very early when vegged in low humidity. like 20% or below. They grow into perfect plants that are just very small overall. This is actually one of two tricks that I sometimes use to get plants to flip early, that is dropping the humidity really low, like below 20 %. Indoors, I can't really think of a reason to do this, but I have experimented with it quite a bit, and verified that it is a real cause of early flipping. In my greenhouse, this would be very useful, but I honestly would never be able to get it that low. I do have another method that works well in the greenhouse for early flipping. I will bring that up a little later on down the road.

This brings up an important point, During veg, run the highest humidity you can, that doesn't create other problems. This encourages your plants to stay in veg longer, and more importantly, they grow faster!
cheers
os

 

I never defoliate anything on autos. I leave the solar panels in place, and let the plant draw out anything from the reserves it needs. I will clean up leaves that are brown from the under canopy, but I wait until they pop off when I touch them. If I grew in a real humidity environment (like true outdoor), I would be a little more proactive about removing nearly spent leaves.

I also never do any "cropping" to try and make extra colas. To me this is counterproductive with an autos limited veg time. I also fear they will stunt or stress with cropping. Just keep the ball bouncing.

This applies to both of the above topics. I do train my plants, and try to put fan leaves where I want them. I use a combo of staking, tomato cages, and Velcro. I train my branches down and outward in the beginning. Then at the end, I use Velcro to hold up big fat heavy branches.

Glad to hear starting in the big pots works for you as well. As far as using led lights in the beginning, I'm sure that you enjoy having the hardier thicker stems, and less lanky plants.

Thanks for stopping by BwillD
cheers
os

 

I was gonna discuss some of the whys about the watering schedule that I posted above. Before I do that, I want to explain one other thing.
Every spring I make up some 7 gallon containers (as described above), start indica dom auto seeds, and harden them off. At about 2 weeks I give them to my 'cool' neighbors that have great south facing porches. All they do is water them. This watering is best described as 'letting them get too dry, and then doing their best to overwater them' cycle. In the end they get gorgeous plants and 3-4 oz of buds for the winter. It take a lot longer than it should, but it works. So just keep this in mind, it can be really simple to grow these things.

The malted blue corn sst at the first sign of preflower. I have found that this sst will cause plants to flower when applied. Therefore I don't use this till I see preflower or I just want to flip it now. Flipping too early will result in smaller plants. I have been playing with this for greenhouse and outdoor reasons. In the greenhouse sometimes I'm willing to flip stuff early, just to get it finished real early, even if the yield is less. Often in the greenhouse plants are so enormous after just a month, that I'm more than happy to just flip em.

I also feel malted barley sst has the similar effect, ESPECIALLY when the humidity is real low.

The malted blue corn sst takes the place of a few other common things, all at the same time. Its my substitute for coconut and alfalfa.

I do the old school style of malted barley powder kelp tea instead of just top dress mbp. The way that I train my plants makes it annoying as hell to topdress powders. I prefer to apply it as a liquid with the chapin (its the wand man!). I do filter out the kelp and mbp. This goes into a worm bin. Even though it may be more work, I see explosive results after adding this tea.

Conversely, I find applying vmc slurry doesn't work for me, and I just shovel it on. I guess I can do it cause its just once.

I quit using the teas when the I see the first hairs turn red.

IMG_0001 by Organic sinse posted Oct 29, 2017 at 9:09 PM

This helps the buds finish more evenly. I'm not sure if its mbp or kelp, but one of those definitely encourage new growth in the form of foxtails or crowning. There is nothing wrong with this but, you will always be adding brand new growth that will never ripen, relative to the rest of the plant. In other words, as the buds you have now, begin to have the hairs darken and suck in, little white haired new growth will continue to pop out of the buds. When I was first learning I applied kelp and mbp and the growth would literally never stop. Not the end of the world, just not ideal. Everyone enjoyed smoking that "mistake" for a long time.

cheers
os