Yoda's Recirculating bubble Buckets

Discussion in 'Do It Yourself' started by Yoda, May 15, 2010.

  1. #801 cdphalanx, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2012
    My apologies if this has been answered already, but is it safe to assume that equal flow can be maintained simply by making sure the inlet hoses are the same length?

    I'd like to use this exact method to adapt my current DWC grow, but I dont have room to go 2x2 on the buckets. I have to have them in-line on top of a workbench that is 2ft deep. I do have room to keep the res on the workbench, but I'd much rather keep my buckets across the entire top of the bench and put the res on the ground underneath.

    Obviously, the pump will need to be strong enough to pump the water up, but I'd imagine that as long as the hoses going into each bucket are the same length, one could maintain even flow.

    Something like the attached image is what im visualizing. Not to scale as the hoses in the image are not nearly the same lengths, but they would be kept the same in practice.

    Thoughts?

    I'm also a little unclear on how to maintain the water level. Its simply determined by how much total water is in the system, correct? So by adding or removing from the res will increase/lower the water level in each bucket?
     

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  2. OK This is where I am thinking you will have major problems... Because you are not putting the res on the same level as your buckets you will have to rely on your pump and your drains way too much!! The way MY system works is when I fill the res the water will travel through the return lines and fill the buckets too. So I can leave everything off and fill my system up completely to the level I want which means whatever the level is in my rezzy then the buckets will all be at the same level. That is the way this system is designed to run. Then when I start my pump I am only using it to circulate the system so all the nutrients are even throughout the system. If my power went out for example the pump would simply stop circulating but the level in the system would stay the same. In your design the problem you are going to have is keeping the level. Let us just say somehow you were able to get your system up and running(which I am not sure how) but lets just say water is being pumped into the buckets and draining back to your res at the same rate and everything was working fine.... what happens if your pump shuts off?? Or slows down a hair?? All the water in the buckets would drain back to the res RIGHT AWAY!! And most likely the res would not be able to handle that type of capacity so it would overflow and boom!! FLOOD!! Or let's go the other way and say what happens if your drain lines slow down a little because some roots are blocking the return port a tad???? The pump will continue to run at the same rate and overfill that bucket and boom!! FLOOD!!!

    In order to run a system like this you have to build the system imagining that there is no pump. When everything is all together and all the plumbing is routed the way you want it you should fill your res till the water level is just below the net pots in the buckets.... That means all the buckets MUST be on the same level. For example if you but a phone book under one of the buckets and it raises the bucket up 3 inches then the water level in that bucket will be 3 inches lower than the water level in the other buckets. But that same level will be equal in height across all the buckets meaning if you measured from the bottom of one of the buckets at regular height and it was 10 inches up from the bottom then the raised bucket will also be at 10 inches if you measured to the bottom of the phone book that it is sitting on but inside the bucket would only have 7 inches of water in it. Understand??

    Basically once you fill your system with all pumps off and you have the water level where you want it in all the buckets and the rezzy then you turn on your pump to circulate the water. You aren't turning on the pump to "fill" the buckets... just to move the water from the res to the buckets while the buckets are draining back to the res and maintaining the same level at all times. If for some reason your water rises in your buckets and lowers in your res at the same time then your pump is too strong and your return lines can not return the water as fast as your pump is filling the buckets. If that happens you need to either use a smaller pump(recommended) or try and slow the flow down with some sort of valve.

    Once you think about it and start to realize how the system works then yu find that it is very simple and what you are doing is complicating it by trying to put the res under the buckets. Here is one more way to think of it. Lets say you put your res on a shelf above your buckets... Then the water would all drain out of the res and into the buckets and overflow them all. What would you do to stop that?? I guess you could TRY and suck the water from the buckets to the res as fast as gravity is draining the water back down to the buckets. Let me know if you get this now or not. If not I can try and figure a different way to explain it. All I can say though is remember to build the system so that when you fill it with NOTHING TURNED ON the water level just stays the same throughout the WHOLE SYSTEM!! That is basically the whole premise of the design. Just use your pump to circulate the water or "mix" it all day long so the nutrients are always stable and the same in every bucket.

    I hope I helped you and didn't confuse you even more!!!

    Philly[​IMG]
     
  3. All perfectly valid and logical info. Thats the EXACT kind of info I was looking for as I figured Id have to be missing some fundamental issue.

    I can easily adapt my plan to accommodate the res being on the same level. My workbench actually extends outside the room, so I can simply put the res outside, but on top of the workbench and seal around the hoses as they enter/exit my room.

    Thanks again!
     
  4. cd its the multiple bukets.If only one buket it would work but then it would be ebb and flow...if understand philly correctly.I understand trying to keep the rez out of the light to keep temps in check. you could use your bench as a deck...anotherwords cut holes and suspend bukets and rez. bottom portions of bkets and rez are now not exposed to lite and do all plumbing and electrical under there as well...upper lited bottom is not...just a thought as you're in the design stage
     
  5. Thats not a bad idea at all and would give me about a foot of extra growth space. I'll have to consider it. I have been trying to use the workbench as-is, that way down the line when I need to sell this house, dismantle and move, I wont need to rebuild anything or leave behind reason to think anything was going on down there.

    Ill probably just do it all on top of the bench, and if I really end up needing the extra height, I can try this.
     
  6. I grow in a tent and I keep my res outside of the tent along with my air pump. I just cut a slit in the vent screen on the side of my tent and ran the hoses through there. Then I took a large towel and wrapped it around there to prevent any light leakage. I learned all this because when I 1st constructed my set up I had the res sitting on a pallet and the buckets were 6 inches lower on the floor inside the tent. When I filled the system the buckets got to be at the level I wanted them but my res looked 3/4 empty. Once I raised the buckets up 6 inches by putting pallets in the tent underneath them my res was filled up like I expected it.

    This is the reason you can control the level in your buckets by only having a sight tube or level marks on your res... When the water level is 4 inches low in the res then its 4 inches low in the buckets. Ya know?? This is also why a 55 gallon drum or any tall type of container will not work as a res. If your buckets are 12 inches tall and you start filling your rezzy up with a hose once you pass the 12 inch mark the buckets will overflow as you're still trying to fill the res and even though you're dumping in gallons of water the level wont rise at all since you'll be loosing it all out the tops of the buckets.

    There was a grower on here that built a 25 bucket set up in a garage and wanted to put the rezzy outside of the garage to keep it nice and cool trying to achieve purples and maroons in his buds. He used a thick plastic 55 gallon drum and while he was outside filling the drum the inside of the garage was flooding out and he didn't realize it until he started thinking to himself why the level wasn't getting any higher. No big deal... Its a concrete floor so he just swept it out and his fix was pretty clever. He dug a hole in the ground and lowered the drum into the hole until all that was sticking up out of the ground was 12 inches of the bucket. This way he could use a nice high volume of water that stays fresher longer and also stayed nice and cool with all that water in the cool earth. He drilled his holes for the hoses at what looked like the bottom of the drum but in reality it wasn't even halfway down the drum. It also keeps things quiet since the water pumps(4) are all in the bottom of the drum 3 or 4 feet underground. It' honestly a pretty slick set up. Inside there is the 25 buckets in 5 rows of 5 going both ways s it fits in like a square. There are 10 1000 watt lights all air cooled and the garage is air conditioned with a roof outlet exhaust that has a GIANT carbon air filter ... The ducting for the filter to the hook up at the inside of the roof is 14 inches in diameter and there are 4 14inch squirrel cage fans helping each other pull the air through the carbon filter. One of the coolest large set ups I have seen. The grower left the City though because he was paranoid about posting here with that kind of set up in a non medical state. The reason I explained all this really was just to help everyone understand the way the the water levels work in relation to the heights of the the reservoirs and buckets and what happens when one is placed higher than the other.

    I tend to over explain things sometimes huh??

    Philly[​IMG]
     
  7. No prob philly makes sense. I saw the principal demo'd on This Old House evidently back in the old days they used a hose filled with water to figure the level of lots to build retaining walls and such..two bukets ,a hose, 5gals of water...lo tech
     
  8. No worry Philly, i do the same thing when its something i know enough about. I always feel the more information, the better. Give someone all the facts and examples and let them figure it out for themselves.

    That dudes setup does sound pretty slick.
     
  9. Yeah it was man... He had a big ass dog that used to stay in the garage. I mean a BIG ass goofy dog like a Great Dane or an Irish Setter or something like that. Anyway he never thought anything of it but late in the bloom cycle the dog apparently ate some of the buds off a few plants and was high as a kite. He said he didn't get hurt or nothin... He just layed around real lazy for a while and drank gallons of water. LOL. The garage was real cool... It was like a small house. Think suburbs... Think detached garage that would fit like 4 cars in 2 rows. Think 2nd floor room that was like a hangout loft with a TV and small fridge... Think a bathroom in there with no shower or tub... Think every guys dream garage but instead of a 65 Corvette and a Harley Fat Boy parked inside there is a 25 site hydro set up and every site has a happy and healthy Blueberry Diesel plant in full bloom. I have a chubby just tellin you guys about it. As much as I like Vettes and Harleys I think I might want the small indoor farm he had there instead. I wish he was still around. I miss his updates and his journal which have all been deleted.
     

  10. this will help you put the main res lower ;) middy

    http://forum.grasscity.com/do-yourself/1112322-lets-build-ebb-gro-6-site-system.html
     
  11. I need this in my subscriptions
     
  12. let me know if you have trouble dood..
     
  13. excellent thread
     
  14. Hey YODA That looks like an awesome system,I am looking to convert my system over to RDWC and can do it real easy,Can you take a look at parts of my box and tell me if what I have planned will work or if it needs improving,right now I am running a top drip system into 8 bato buckets, The returns I can leave just the way it is now as seen in the first picture.
    I would have to replace the feed pipe as seen in the second picture,insted of having the 2 1/4 in tubes coming from the feed pipe I will put T fittings with a barbed hose fitting as seen in the next two pictures,then just run some 1/2 inch tubeing to the bubble buckets and insted of tubing going back to the rez it returns to the rez through the drain system I have now,my rez in under my grow box,I keep in all the way under the box but pulled it out some for the next picture.
    Now for the air pump I can put air stones in each bucket thats not a problem, my air pump is a wisper air pump that can supply air to up to a 100 gallon fish tank with two air outlets as seen in the next picture,now I know they are called bubble buckets because of all the bubbles in the buckets,but do you really need the air stones in each bucket or can you have one really big air stone in the rez?
    The water pump is in the rez and it is a tetra 1000 gph pump,in your opinion is that too big or the bigger the better up to a point? instead of useing bato buckets I use bubble buckets witch in my opinion look pretty much the same.
    So what do you think,will it work? what would you change or is my plan good the way it is?
     

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  15. Yoda may I ask why the inlet hole need to be 1 inch down from the netpot ? Can I just instead put the tube on top of the netpot and make it top feed system ?
     
  16.  
    Sure you could, I designed mine to be flood proof. so everything ive done has left room for error in case there is a backup of water flow.
     
    Should work fine if you choose to have the inlet higher.
     
  17. #817 Yoda, Sep 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2013
     
     
    That pump will not work, its to big.
    you want very little flow in this design, your return will never keep up.
    the return works with gravity and water pressure, you buckets will overflow before it has time to get back to the res.
    keep in mind, flow means nothing other then keeping the ph and ppm in check and mixed.
     
    You don't nec need stones in each bucket, but with hydro more bubbles is always better.
    a single air stone in the res would suffice.
     
    Another reason I choose to put them in each bucket is I run organics and didn't want any setiment in the bottom of the buckets, the air stones keep that from happening...
     
    Hope this helps
     
  18. Hey, just wondering how I would possibly add 2 buckets to this system, the manifold design is to specifically allow 4 buckets, and cant seem to find a 4 way barbed adapter to add an extra row to the manifold. any pics or ideas of 6 bucket setup ? im doing a 5x5 tent for 4 seems like a bit small.
     
  19. Can someone have a look at my thread involving water level.issues? I builty system loosely based on Yoda's theory.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/index.php?/topic/1254822-RDWC-Water-leveling-issues
     
  20. #820 The Letter 3, Feb 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2014
    Well its been awhile since anyone has posted in here. However, I wanted to say thanks for an incredible guide. It was easy to follow and complete. Shes up and running with no leaks! I still need to fiddle with my airlines but for tonight its acceptable.
     

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