Supplement Lighting

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by JinTerra, Apr 2, 2021.



  1. I thought I was correct but I know these fellas have a lot more LED knowledge than I do so I just went with it.

    So I feel i was spot on wanting 6x 240w boards for 27sqft. Puts me just over 53w per sqft of grow space and will allow me to run every light at 80%. That's 1152w per 27sqft putting me right at 42.5w per sqft. Leaves me room to bump em or or dial em back
     
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  2. #22 Headhunterpipes, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
    On LED efficiency yes you guys are correct ,, i was wrong overall

    UV-B light .
    Watch the video .
    SolarSystem® UVB High Output UVB T5 Fluorescent Bulb (californialightworks.com)


    24/7 UV-B lighting or even 12hours of UV-B light or color spectrum .
    95 % or more UV-B waves produced by the sun is absorbed by the Ozone .

    I cant really explain this well , I do own two California Light Works 24watt CFL UV-B supplement grow lights .

    I have been experimenting using UV_B and UV-C In one of my 4x8 grow tents .
    I believe my UV-C light is 24 watts too.

    UV-B light waves burns your plants ........................... no if ands or butts ...
    Wow you would think the light being on one minute ever 15 minutes wouldn't burn the shit out your plants and it shows about on the 4th day of operation on a 12 on 12 off light cycle .
    I started this experiment at 5 minutes on straight ever 30 minutes .
    I have tried one minute on every 30 minutes.
    I have tried 1 minute on every 60 minutes .

    Now I will have my UV-B light set at one minute on every two hours ..

    There is no way I would want UV-B lighting all through the plants life ,, not using 24watt bulbs
    What UV-B waves make it through the Ozone is nothing compared to using UV-B supplement
    lighting .






    Personally I think the guys at California light works really dont completely have their shit together ether .
     
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  3. I've never heard, read, anything of that nature saying LEDs are most efficient maxed out. 110% of what I've read and heard stated the opposite.

    But I'm nobody and would be open to reading a link stating otherwise
     
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  4. This is good info, and yes, I conceded to those with experience (!) Mostly though its a matter of exposing some UV light. You are using UVC? That is much much stronger than UVB. You know who is very knowledgeable in this is @ChiefRunningPhist, where u at bro?

    Have you ever tried using Jasmonic acid (ie. methyl jasmonate)? I think this would just bypass all UV increases. I found a source, but I never got to try them out yet. Still expensive stuff (not that much, but I'm a cheapskate). Also the problem is increasing JA response (which increases trichomes) maybe affect overall bulk, but idk for sure.
    Thanks for the info brother
     
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  5. Don't mess with UV-C. No UVC makes it through our atmosphere. UV-C is only used to kill things. It is used to sterilize.
    It is very dangerous to all life on earth.

    Sent from my phbgf uijj tplkjn
     
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  6. #26 Headhunterpipes, Apr 7, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
    Because what California light works suggest only using Supplement UV-B lighting only in the last two weeks of harvest time it doesn't give me allot of experimental time to adjust how long I want the UV-B lights on .
    Sativa burns easier then Indica and normally i only grow sativa .
    Imo you cant use the lights in a grow room with both Sativa and Indica plants ..
    I started off with the lights being on 4 hrs on when the rest of my grow lights on (as per California Light Works ).
    They burned the shit of my plants ..
    I have done a hole slew of different amounts of time cycles with the UV-B light testing and so far all my results has been the lights burn my plants .
    Right now my next harvest I will have the UV-B lights on one minute per hour in the last 2 weeks of harvest.

    One thing I will do is if i see the leaf's starting to burn I will turn the lights off now , where i didn't in the pass .
    The science is that UV-B makes your plants produce more resin ..
    But finding the magic numbers of how many minutes should the light be turned on for on which strains of MJ plants is not known to me .

    UV-C lighting and the deadly Ozone it emits kills everything single celled .......
    The skin on your arms , insect egg larva , all fungi , the leaf's on your plants .
    It will blind you and your pets ...
    UV-C lighting is one stage under X Ray waves ..
    My UV-C light has a built in timer on it .
    I believe its 24 or 48 watt bulb .
    I set my UV-C light on my kitchen table and I turn on my UV-C light for 60 minutes and take my doggie and leave my house for two hours.
    You can actually smell the Ozone when I walk back into my house , i vent my home as soon as i get home .
    I do this to kill Fungi and insect egg larva in my home .
     
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  7. I have twenty HLG 2v288 R spec Samsung QB's
    I use 8 boards per 4x8 tent, 160 watts per board 1280 watts per 4x8 tent .
    32 square feet of grow space per tent .
    1280 watts divided by 32 = 40 watts per square foot of grow space in a 4x8 tent .
     
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  8. In your situation I would run 35k white strips down the sides. Or use Philips 19w floodlight bulbs down the sides & one on each end. They make them in a sweet grow spectrum you can get at Walmart or HomeDepot. Gotta whiten that up anyways right.
     
  9. One can cause increased levels of thc several ways aside from UV. Same goes for stretch & spectrum during the first 3wks of flower.
    I can say this with assurance, UVA can get the job done & I'd better used at high doses on a timer. Beware of fixtures that offer a big spike of uva but no separate channel for dimming or a timer. Why u ask? 2 major reasons. 1) 390nm (highest efficiency, longest lasting) is only a 20,000 hr diode ran typical (1/2 it's max), while everything else on your pcb is 50,000+ hours. So if running all the time (say they were smart enough to decrease to allow a lower spike for full time use w/o plant or yeild damage) They are still only adding enough diodes to get the desired spd. When in fact they would need to double them & drop the current to 1/2 typical or 1/4 max. End result, your uvas die the day your warrenty expires.
    2) UVA should not run full time even at low doses or it will defeat the purpose. Like UVB, the plant needs incremental exposure. Just more time for UVA is all.

    Side note. Notice where UVA lines up on a Chlorophyll chart. It is Cloro-A just like 660. And I believe when used correctly will increase yeilds (it does size). Also peep the sun in the afternoon loaded with uva that the plant is already used to & has auto defense rather then obtained through thc sunscreen like we have the opportunity to do indoors.
    I'm not guessing, I'm going off experience. Screenshot_20210221-011625_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20210212-134546_Chrome.jpg
     
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  10. I have all the spectrums in my 5x5 tent. Working on the second tent still.
    20210409_202605.jpg
     
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  11. I run my UVa 385nm and 365nm whole time lights are on. However the uvb can easily burn leafs. These spectrums have been utilized by plants before humans walked the earth. Every single spectrum is important and recent studies now are even showing that green spectrum is very important. Yes it may reflect off the chlorophyll within the leafs cellulose wall but in doing so it travels deeper into the canopy while also carrying chlorophyll-A and Chlorophyll-B photons further down canopy as well. Thus increasing canopy penetration and canopy uniformity.

    20210417_221500.jpg
     
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  12. Agreed, you know wazup. Cool tent, lots a spectra there. A nice blast will get your thc up similar to uvb though. Owning leds we have the ability to manipulate the plant in a way you generally can't with the sun. This is one of the reasons replication of the sun indoors is not optimal. Aside from the tech vs electrical efficiencies. We can manipulate so much using targeted spectrums or wavelengths.
    100% right you are. The combination of wavelengths in the right proportion causes synergistic effects, similar to the Emmerson Effects for example. It works both ways though & can halter the desired effects if improperly proportioned.
    . Yup, scientists are just now getting funded to study Cannabis (past 3 yrs) so unfortunately many long term growers studying spectrum Effects on plants have more insight then some of these Scientists many look up too. They'll catch up rapidly though, having the resources & funding. As for now, I disagree with Bruce Bugbee on to many things to give him the credentials many do.
     
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  13. Agreed on Bugbee I dont really feel like a learn much of anything from him. Instead college research papers in pdf files have been much more of a help.

    I absolutely love HLG and messing with spectrums and feel it is greatly overlooked. However if I was not in a apartment I would absolutely be utilizing the sun in a mixed light greenhouse. My other tent will have the agromax pure uv which I hear is more efficient and affordable than CLW UVB. Oh and in the tent I showed you I will be adding 1 more HLG saber and 2x qb96 v2s making a total of 6x qb96 v2s.
     
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  14. #34 Hybridway, Apr 25, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
    Nice lights but still a Supplemental Salad.. May I suggest upgrading to an all-in-one Led fixture? This way you have full control over your 60,000+ possible spectrums but also have way improved spectral uniformity. Plus you can program the spectrums you want to come on when you want. Including the 1:3, 660/IR , 5-7 min. After lights out function along with sunset & sunrise which will dramatically slow down the heightened Humidity levels at these times. Sure, our intake & outtake kick on for this as well as a de-hu on a timer for lights out but it helps, is more natural & allows one to grow 13 on/11 off. The ir blast after lights out puts them to bed faster so they're not really losing an hour sleep but still gaining.
    IF it weren't for HLG I would have taken allot longer to learn this stuff as I used the HLG's, HE spectrum as a base spectrum (similar to just white), & compared them all to the all-in one Fixtures. After getting the same results plant after plant & strain after strain, same cuts, same moms. I then turned to supplementing & diffusing the HLG Gear to get similar results & ease of growing to the All-in-one Fixture but it would have been quite a bit more money in the end & never the uniformity. Also save allot of money & only deal with the one purchase instead of juggling many.
    So this is why I recommend considering a fixture you don't need to upgrade or add to. One that you have full control over rather then dabbling with a few to get what you hoped Is your desired spd's. Not to mention diode protection one of the most overlooked aspects. Probably because these popular lights were primarily based off a DIY platform. But that's no excuse for the plug n plays & plays directly into the Phebius (forgot name) Cartels actions when the major corporations decided to make bulbs fail so we'd buy more. As Is everything. Planned Obsolescence.
    Fact: Environmental conditions & heat are the 2 main factors to diode degradation. Yet we see the majority of companies strapping the driver to the backside w/o spacers till recently, adding oddball chips at the wrong amounts to one pcb for early failure & selling growers raw diodes knowing that something as simple as the gasses your soil or soiless media puts out is enough to cut their life span in half. NM, no suggested safe way to clean them, or protect them. Oh, n the freaking glare could blind you. Not a safe design imo. I need to use x2 pair of black-outs to enter my room at night because of QB 's that have No lip. Messing up my Circadian Rythem so bad I'm practically a GG's personality when agitated with full blown S.A.D.
    God forbid they cover the diodes to provide a product or even go as far as diffusion so so many led newbies switching from easy going, easy growing bulbs do not get LED Deficiency, go blind, lose thousands or 100's of thousands in Cheddar before dialing a very difficult design in, unless you have super high ceilings. I lost so much I almost quite all together or went back to hps. But got lucky & turned it around 120% to now get results I would have never believed possible. The online Bro-Science by 2oz. Plant growers killed me for quite some time.
    Here is one example of spectrum making a difference.. He did x3 SBS's, applying exactly the same ppfd each time. And each time he landed the same results. Mind you, this is prior to the spectral improvements made since by the competitor in this case. Making it even more profound now.

    HLG Saber vs Amare SB800, Wedding cake RDWC

    Round 2! HLG Saber vs Amare SB800 RDWC

    X2 of the 3. He was a Lil confused about the spectrum & efficiencies but no matter how you slice it, results are results.
    1/2 # more per 4x4 of higher grade. Is what it is.
    You'll achieve similar by supplementing but w/o a Spectrometer, it's really hard to dial optimal results. My design is Called Hortri-Centric lighting. ChilLed attempted a bite of it but forgot a few things seeing how they lack the field experience. But this one was a common sense mistake. Either way they provided a touchscreen remote that allows you to use your programmed spd's. They beat me to the punch but fortunately for me they only understood half my logic.
    That's what I get for talking to much. Glad they scrubbed my threads on RIU or the led manufactures that didn't get to utilize the info shared there would be taking notes now. Lol! They laughed then but I'm laughing now.
    Unfortunately the only ones who paid any attention were the lurking China Companies that desperately needed that R+D information they otherwise had no access too. Good for them those Commi bastards. Even Sansi got me. Any & every China company I've shared small info with to possibly get my desighn up n running has taken that info & implemented it within a week. NDA or No NDA. Websites change, new products, added nm'rs, the list goes on.. wouldn't you know, unlike Stephen or Victor, they do Not even say thank you. NM provide a free light you suggested be built. SMH! Moral Ethics Are Out The Window In China. That's for sure.
     
  15. I'm good and already am utilizing 660nm with 730nm accelerating the phytochrome process in flower. Also I do not want a whole fixture at all. I am able to adjust the spectrums individually. Granted I have 8 drivers but dont mind at all.
     
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  16. #36 Hybridway, Apr 25, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
    I hear you.! Glad you Know to have the Emmerson Effects. Why many don't is beyond me. Its been proven over n over again for about 20yrs to be the key ingredient to larger yields (20% on average) and is an absolute necessity for leds to compete. DLC is practically making it a regulation to have In your led grow light. Next year it will be. This year is a ton of leniency so that DE HPS is not fully 86'd, led DIY based plug n play companies can get it together. Giving the big growers (legal cultivators) a year to catch up n buy good led if the want that Energy Star rebate. MAD Cool to be able to control various different products. In a larger setting it'd be pretty damn hard w/o a maim brain controller though. BTW, you don't have to say "I'm good" because I'm not trying to sell you anything. Only asking you to think of something you may or may not have thought of before for your benefit.
    The fixture I'm referring to is x4, 240w fixtures in one that is fully versatile, detachable in sets of x2, slidable, pivoting bars, But as for the Smaller Bar-6 I did ask for the spectrum control to replace the modularity control of the Bar-6 in order to Have Proper Hortri-Centric Lighting. It was originally designed to be x2, Bar-3's, having separate drivers & a UVA driver for each on switches (The Demo I use). Comes a folding 6 bar that detaches in the middle. Now it's a 3-Channel Veg/Bloom/UVA, all on dimmers, manual or controlled via controller or app. All linkable.
    So the x4 lights in one, Bar-8 is the fully versatile version but still controlls all bars at once. It's already an Arm n a leg more to produce & sells for less then inferior products many Jock. So it's not a profitable light to sell but is the Cream if the Crop & sold for only 1.64/w till I stepped in n said why??? Why provide x4 times the light at a lessor cost? Guess he figured it would sell itself w/o mktng but that's Never the case. So I'm pushing for $1800 for the 900w fully versatile Bar-8. Even paid 1600 for mine when my invoice was quite a bit less seeing how I helped with the Gen2 Design. And step up grower awareness.
    I want to support those I believe in & provide products that make all the differencein the world to me in my garden, not Haggle them down. Hate that shit.
    The individually controlled sets of x2 in different lengths is coming out soon.
     
  17. Mimicking the sun ... Grows weed the best ?
    I agree that MJ plants like and need green light spectrum ,

    I guess most of my knowledge come from the school of hard knocks .
    In my quest for lighting in my indoor grow I made more mistakes then most likely any other subject we can talk about .
    My main 4x8 tent I have thrown in the works ..
    I have eight 2v 288 R spec Samsung QB's total of 1280 true watts
    I made three Programmable 5 channel Cree/Cob Led grow lights with a Makers controller totaling 375 watts .
    before I made my Samsung quantum boards ..
    The Cree/Cob boards are expensive .... 3 bucks plus per actual watt.
    I programed my programable led grow lights to come on in either blue or red light spectrum depending on the cycle the plant is in.
    The programmable lights start off dim and ramp up just as the sun would depending what season i want to program them to.
    Then my Samsung Boards come on for 11 hours and shut off .
    My programmable lights start ramping or dimming and go all the way out just like a sunset over a 30 minute time period.
    I have only grown sativa so far , I know Sativa plants burn easier or faster then Indica plants ..
    This shouldn't be over looked , Almost all the suns UV-B electromagnetic waves are absorbed by earths Ozone .
    Million dollar question is how much UV-B light does actually get to the surface of our planet .
    I know that 24 minutes of 48 watts of UV-B light burns the shit out of my sativa plants

    Right now I have twenty 2v288 Rspec boards in a total of 86 feet of grow space 160 watts per board = 3200 watts equals to 37.2 watts per square foot .
    But in the main tent i also have 375 watts of the programmable led Lights .


    I have ran my Cree/Cob lights side by side with my Samsung boards .
    All off my Sativa plants grow toward the Samsung boards , not the Cree Cob Boards .
     

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  18. Yea man that's why I like my light set up. Rather not pay over $1,500 when I got basically all those lights in that tent probably still a little less than that price. My PG&E bill was $147 last month running 2 tents and includes all other electrical equipment I use in apartment and my gas as well which seems to be the most expensive. Hate the winter time haha.
     
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  19. #39 Hybridway, Apr 25, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
    95% of All UV hitting the earth is UVA, 5% IS UVB & ONLY 1/3 Of all that touches us.

    "Mimicking the sun indoors is optimal? "

    No but close. That was the first spectrum I started with called the "Equatorial Spectrum". It was as close as we could electrically effiently get to the sun 9/10 yrs ago in led & included a UVB , T-8 on a timer. Was equally efficient as regular Premium Cob grow lights but had a 95cri, full- ish spectrum.

    I agree that MJ plants like and need green light spectrum ,

    -Yes, most deffinetly but only half of a regular 80 cri white led is optimalish (Depends on how you balance your spectrum) Providing all that green made for humans to see, only hurts the plant by overcrowding DLI in the wrong place.

    I guess most of my knowledge come from the school of hard knocks .

    -Word to your Mother, your sister & your Brother!

    In my quest for lighting in my indoor grow I made more mistakes then most likely any other subject we can talk about .

    -Me Mu-Fu Too bro. Don't feel bad. I shared all the ugly too.

    My main 4x8 tent I have thrown in the works ..
    I have eight 2v 288 R spec Samsung QB's total of 1280 true watts
    I made three Programmable 5 channel Cree/Cob Led grow lights with a Makers controller totaling 375 watts .
    before I made my Samsung quantum boards ..
    The Cree/Cob boards are expensive .... 3 bucks plus per actual watt.
    I programed my programable led grow lights to come on in either blue or red light spectrum depending on the cycle the plant is in.
    The programmable lights start off dim and ramp up just as the sun would depending what season i want to program them to.
    Then my Samsung Boards come on for 11 hours and shut off .
    My programmable lights start ramping or dimming and go all the way out just like a sunset over a 30 minute time period.
    I have only grown sativa so far , I know Sativa plants burn easier or faster then Indica plants ..
    This shouldn't be over looked , Almost all the suns UV-B electromagnetic waves are absorbed by earths Ozone .

    "Million dollar question is how much UV-B light does actually get to the surface of our planet ?" ---Above answered close.

    .
    I know that 24 minutes of 48 watts of UV-B light burns the shit out of my sativa plants.

    - Ohh yeah, doesn't take much & why i opt away from it. Not necessarily from where I sit. Can accomplish the same allot safer simply by cutting g your leaves in half to stress the plant & let 50% more light in while your at it. Not gonna work for big growers but de-fo does. Then there's all those bottles of this n that. Haha. I personally create the drought effect last few weeks a couple times. (Old natural thing done to grapes)

    Right now I have twenty 2v288 Rspec boards in a total of 86 feet of grow space 160 watts per board = 3200 watts equals to 37.2 watts per square foot .
    But in the main tent i also have 375 watts of the programmable led Lights .


    I have ran my Cree/Cob lights side by side with my Samsung boards .
    All off my Sativa plants grow toward the Samsung boards , not the Cree Cob Boards .[/QUOTE]

    -Very Cool Bro..
    See in your second pic.? The different spectrums hitting the plants. Good for SBS purposes using clones but not blending to create optimal results throughout the room.
    The reason a plant pulls towards one light or another is because it is seeking blue light that is much more easily absorbed then any other. So whatever light is Blue Dominant will be the ones your plants lean too. Usually a heavy blue burple, MH, 41K CMH, White leds (which are built off a 450nm die). But if you mix your spectrums in one LES then you will see the Differences I'm referring to and each plant receives a broad, yet targeted spectrum. Bag appeal, quality, bud size, colors can all be optimized in one this way.
    I like your tent though.
    Another thing that burns my butt is companies purposely selling folks a limitted product just so they can add that Lil something next year & persuade growers to upgrade. Also, DIY costs a Fortune. 9yrs ago haters were saying, why buy that all in one fixture when I can build it for less? Welp, after several growers tried, the consensus was its not possible. Especially if you add in build quality & 5 yr warranty provided 10 yrs ago that DLC is just making mandatory now after seeing all the "Planned Obsolescence" going around.
    After the Big Burple Conspiracy it only got worse buy with slightly better results then Burple. White COBs weren't beating hps yet because they were still only
     
  20. #40 Hybridway, Apr 25, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
    Just a Few pics from last run. Every run has had a different ceiling array. Testing supplemental lighting & comparing the effects.
    Last year I decided to drop my rooms light efficiency by about a 1/3. Which is kind've allot. I did this in an experiment using lower efficiency burple boards. Down the center isle of plants. Normally, one of those Lil burple boards could not flower a plant of this size. But put one over each plant down the middle of the room. The HE white & enhanced white Coming from either side mixed with the lower efficiency burple boards provided high enough par #'s now.
    End result was my best run to that date. Tons of compliments on the quality & I learned I could control the size of the buds pretty easily. As the red heavy burple panels created a bigger bud similar to hps but frosty & led colors n looks. My rooms yields never hit that high before.
    I've been using Enhanced white since day one but it was primarily from one companies lights. Love the results so took it to the next level & was not disappointed. I do believe in spectral efficiency just as much as electrical. And know that the plant can be seriously manipulated by spectrum.
    So if there's growers out there with old shitty burple lights. They may still be useful w/o lenses. Something to consider.
    Also, when I supplement I do my best to add the nm's that are lacking for a fuller,broader spectrum. 20210306_140347.jpg 20210311_134807.jpg 20210312_185039.jpg 20210312_191834.jpg 20210313_132011.jpg 20210313_193158.jpg 20210314_225622.jpg 20210320_203333.jpg 20210324_010008.jpg 20210325_005227.jpg
     

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