Wiegh in on SBS: All plants grown in a 7gall. Fabric pott. Pro-Mix, Jack's Hybrid Mix. Area: 7'x5'8", Both sides. Amare Bar-8: 900w+50w in side strips -BrideZilla #2: 650g -GG4: 787g x4, SunPlix CMH, 315's (x2,3k,x2,41k)=1260-1400w+50w in side strips (After power outage they turned back on at 350 each for about 12-14 days) -BrideZilla#2: 703g -GG4: 743g Both came out fantastic with the led having the density, bag appeal n terps. Confirmed by patients. HLG Diablo: 550w average + 60w under canopy. -x1, BrideZilla #4 on the end-cap with more room to expand: 892g -green, dense, frosty buds. Sliggt Issue with fan leaves dying off early. Amare Bar-6-Demo: 610w + 60w under canopy. It had a decent handi-cap by being crammed between 2 other plants. BrideZilla#4: 884g. -Lavender n Pink buds, Autumn leaves, bigger buds Lil less dense. Caught about twice or more stretch. Showing again width x height = greater yields then just width x width. Both damk but again, when given the option the patients choose the Bar-6 , BrideZilla.
Over 1gpw on the CMH! awesome return. When you look at the cost of a full CMH setup it's almost unbeatable. $208 for a complete setup so about 850 for 4 after shipping. CMH $850 Amare Bar-8 - $1700 HLG Diablo - $1400 If just running in flower the CMH bulb will last almost 5 years before needing to be replaced. making the bulb cost come out to about $56 a year for 4. 3.2lbs every 2 months for 5 years or about 96 pounds of the herb. I think anyone pocketbook can handle that. lol The only issue you really run into with the CMH is it does create a bit more heat than the LED and also consumes a bit more electricity. Not by a lot tho.
Yeah, I agree, CMH are great. From what I've seen the cost for a CMH set-up can range from $210-$400 for a single bulb fixture, then bulb for 50-100, so $300-$500 plugged in. - I went for the SunPlix double, dimmable ballast, expandable or detachable hoods that are each Designed for a 4x4 coverage. I like cross-lap lighting in the open space. Good guy,, threw in x2, free, 26', 220v extension cords too to run remote ballasts 700W Dual 350W IR Dimming Grow Light Fixture So around $660 for the x2 bulb set up then bought Philips + SunPlix bulbs at like $75-95, each. . Maybe $700 total for x1, x2 bulb fixture with 3k+41k bulbs. Needed x2 of these to compete against the Bar-8 at approximately 400w less (averaged the 700w each fixture time into the grow) for the difference from 1260w. Average wattage was 1300w for CMH. So, I spent about $1400 on the CMH to compete against the Bar-8. With a few yrs less warranty & bulb replacement. Slightly Cheaper, commercial type CMH set-ups are available but I wanted the longevity & efficiency of the low-frequency, square-wave ballast. Good service too! Great to work with. CMH bulbs were originally said to be 1 yr bulbs but you make a good point, they were considered Veg bulbs back then. Although I have recently heard a rumor of 2 yrs. 5 yrs.??? Idk, even if only flower. Shouldn't be to hard to obtain the info for when there's a 30% drop in output though. - All Gen1, Bar-8 's were sold for $1500-1550, dropped at ur door bought direct from Amare. Idk what third party distributors did. The Diablo is nice n a hellava bright light as all HLG lights are. But that in No Way, Shape or Form covers a 7' x 5'8" area as in how this test was done. One would need x2, Diablos running at 550w each to compete here. Unfortunately my square cheapo, 22" house fan has a higher IP rating. After knowing the x2 key factors to diode degradation is Heat & Environment, that's not helping, nor Is the need to supplement in order to compete with the bag appeal, yield & bud size of the Bar-8 or 6 but possibly the CMH. Only the Diablo would be denser & possibly frostier then cmh for that reason. Hard to say. CMH buds look pretty stunning & big. Allot easier to grow under cmh for me then a qb though. - BAR-8= 900w evenly spread, enhanced, IP-67 bars in the Canna-Spec. $1500 - X4, SunPlix CMH, or x2 fixtures = 1260w, up to 1400. $14-1500. Job was done In a 7'x5'8" area for each light Array, using x2 identical as could be, clones from the same moms.
I was talking about the cost of my CMH setup. for $208 it comes with a ballast - Reflector - Philips bulb. It is a cheap wing reflector but IMO they will work just as good it's the same pebbled reflector. The ballast is from Prism with a 3-year warranty and has been running for 2 years without issue for me. If it lasts another year and dies I wouldn't be bothered by buying a new one. The ballast alone is only $120. $40 a year if they only lasted 3 years is a totally acceptable cost for me when you factor in the volume of product it will produce. Far as the longevity of the bulb here is what I found - Superior color quality. Crisp cool white light. 4200k color temperature, High 92cri, 34,300 initial lumens (109Lm/W). High 90% lumen maintenance at 8,000 hr / High 85% PPF maintenance at 20,000 hr. Unique Open Rated Lamp construction reduces radiant heat from the arc tube and is suitable for open fixture use. Maybe I'm reading that wrong but it seems like there is only a 15% drop after 4.5 years of 12/12. 3 years for veg and I will honestly run my veg bulb for at least 5 since I'm not worried about any real drop in light intensity in veg. Also, I believe all ballasts designed for CMH are a low-frequency square wave. I would never buy those retrofit kits
Wow! I've seen the commercial kits for $210 that look like a mini DE hood with the ballast attached to the back.. was gonna try those. Store said I needed to still buy a bulb. Philips bulbs are almost $100 by themselves. Hood & ballast for another hundred, guess u can't pass that one up, Square-wave or not. Grabbed x2 Phantom hoods for free recently & bought the Phantom ballast (Square-wave) to go with them. First time was $180, second time I got a better discount for $144. As I was deciding the second time I noticed x2 ballasts made by HydroFarm. The Phantom=$180.00 or the Xtra-Sun=$122.00. Both by Hydrofarm & no mention of Square-wave on the Xtra-Sun. I'd stay with a decent name brand, bought from a manufacturer or store that I know or have a good feeling will uphold their warranty. Shit Happens! When checking these differences by means of comparisons for a purchase I feel it important to compare Apples to Apples. Found them. But it certainly ranges. CMH 315w Turbo Philips 3100K Lamp Complete Grow Light 120-240v | HTG Supply
That's a good price too. I like the remote ballasts so I don't have all the weight above my plants. This is the one I have but with a different reflector Ceramic MH 315w Wing Reflector Package When I finalize the flower side lighting I will have 4 qbs a cmh 4 qbs and another cmh. Only pushing 320 watts thru each set of 4. Think that will flower 10 plants.
What's the space? Sounds good just trying to picture a layout that blends best. Like surrounding a cmh with QBS for the 4x4-5x5. I recommend trying the, small, open hood made to cover the 4x4 for optimal blending. The IR in the CMH does nothing but help the qb's plants. Qb's raise efficiency over the areas & the combo tightens up the otherwise bigger HPS style colas u get from the 315's. Adding trich density & prob increasing thc a bit by means of density. Should be nice. Be sure to share!
Depends, in my case that would be 3 plants. But sure, 10 depending on your style. I've always liked the idea of a square of bars around a cmh.
Full flowering space is 5x10 actual used space is 5x8. I just grow smaller plants in 3gal pots so squeezing 10 in that space isn't a problem.
Great convo on CMH! What's the heat load on CMH? I run in a 5 x 5 & 4 X 4 tent. I use the AMARE BAR 6 in the 5 x 5 running four plants. The BAR 6 is the coolest running light to date.
Yeah, it does not get hot for sure. I can barely feel warm with one oscillating fan over the canopy, hitting the lights. Did you come up with a schedule for your UVA or just when you walk by n remember like me? Next one had the timer & I think we could even incorporate an outlet for a UVA timer ourselves on ours. I'll lyk if I go at it. If you wanna pm me I can tell you how I dimmed the cobs on the Pro-4's if you haven't already done it. I'm running my Pro-4's at 275w & found them allot easier to use that way & still get par i want from them due to the monos. This Shifts the spectrum some too, reducing the green & winding up with something closer to the Canna-Spec. I personally did not have the ceiling height for the size plants I grow using 100w cobs. The CMH heatload is hefty. Allot of misinformation about them online, where people say they run cooler then hps. Maybe if comparing photons as they are more efficient. But at the end of the day, a bulb is a bulb. With allot if ir in the unseable range, which is basically just Heat after 800nm. Mine have remote ballasts & they pump heat. One 315 open bulb only runs you about the ambient of one 1000 hps, air-cooled if I had to guess. They are pretty nice though because you'll never have a veg issue with them, all plants like it in flower not like some that have a tough time under certain leds. But the SBS showed equal yields using 400w less in a 7x5'8" space. Those submitted yields were only for the plants directly under each light being compared. They did not include all the bud grown off the intersecting plants that stretched there way under each light to use their photons. So just the x2 plants on each sidecwere recorded in. The Canna-Spec was chosen every time over the cmh bud when given. The choice, labeled A + B to distinguish so the patient does not know which is which. That outcome was different then what I anticipated going in & never using cmh before. I thought they'd have the most possible bag appeal after hearing the rave & seeing the spectrum. Now I feel I have a better understanding of bulb spectrum vs the potential of leds. The cmh has a small amount of uva+b that is emitted full time. UVA lines up with 660 on the absorbing chart so it made sense to get the bigger buds which the Bar-6 helped In confirming when compared to the Diablo. But, as we already know, if running uv's they have to be on a schedule that will allow the desired effects. To much causes the plant to build its resistance up. Which brings me to wondering if they do already by being veggies under uv included lighting.?. Doubt it as it's a separate phase with a different chemical balance going in. Not sure. But the Canna-Spec made for denser & more colorful buds that appeared to have more trichs & odor. So that is why it was chosen over the cmh, 6 out of 6 times by x3 different people, they said. I really like that my cmh is dimmable because one plant rn cannot take the 630w but does fine with the 500w. While the other plant is growing into the bulbs at 315 each or 630w. They also have the ability to go up to 350 each. Dimming changes the ir amounts, slightly changes the spectrum as well. As with hps, the cmh gets less efficient each time you dim it a notch. Unlike led. This run is monster sized. Lost one to hermi & afraid it will spread. Never pheno hunt in a main room. I knew that but did it anyway. Stupid is is stupid does.
Got a Pro-4 @ its normal wattage w/ lenses hitting the side of the CMH colas from about 10' away. I think this is the before & after but I still had to angle it up more in these pics. The last set shows how lit it is now.
Great detailed info. Much appreciated! On the 450 I usually set the UV on a separate timer. I run the mono's and the COB's or I alternate them if I see the plants getting stressed. It usually depends on the strain. I try to keep them short so I have head room during flower. On the BAR 6 I have been alternating the UV every few days. Haven't dug into it yet but thought about wiring a relay to the on /off switch for the UV and controlling the relay with a timer. I thought about going with a low wattage CMH or MH for veg just as a blue booster but in all reality everything has been fine so it isn't a major concern.
Yeah the room varies from 630w to 275w a plant. 450 being the average. If it were all Bar-8 or bars in here id try to go 3-4, 110w bars a plant. I'm staying with the CMH in both flower & veg rooms. Next run I'll spread em out a Lil more & Hybrid them with leds. Like maybe the Trinity at 300w between them. We'll see. Love mixing n matching the lighting. The CMH led combo is nice.
I thought about CMH and know a couple of growers who use them. My grow area is in a dormer and a heat box late spring to early fall. So I think the heat load (cooling cost) would be a big negative. Since I am in tents I have never used the lenses on the SE-450. There isn't a need. I use the UVB on the 450 as a go to sleep turning it on 15 minutes before lights out and leaving it on 15 minutes after lights out. It really made a difference in terpene production. Some of the strains were actually "oily". I run the BAR 6 in incremental stages starting at around 30 % as a general rule. I then adjust the output as they grow. The plants seem much happier. If I get a strain that is sensitive it get move to the outer edge. I also found that running the cal /mg heavy and using potash longer helped with the "purpling" . It seems the BAR 6 super energizes the photosynthesis process.
That's a cool idea-Running the uvb at lights out. I'm going try that uva,660,730. Here's a few snaps from the garden.