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Making Water Soluble Cannabis Edibles at Home

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by Ringodog, Nov 17, 2020.

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  1. #21 PsychedelicSam, Nov 20, 2020
    Every time I've used the powder I've experienced a quick onset and half the standard dose. My tolerance isn't as high as yours but it's high enough that I have been pleasantly surprised at how well the lower dose has worked. And it lasts for hours like the best of both worlds, the rapid onset from the starch yet the extended duration of an oil infusion. And I find it to be strain specific. I've used Sativa and Indica and really got to trucking with the Sativa and the pain/body effects of the Indica. Don't get that too often with standard edibles.

    There's some misunderstanding in the community about D9 and 11-hydroxy. All D9 that gets into the blood stream whether through edibles or by toking will get converted to 11-hydroxy. The difference comes with the ratio that is processed. All blood goes through the liver and compounds get metabolized. Toking just gets small amounts per puff and then what gets into the bloodstream via the lungs has to travel from there and maybe through some other organs before it starts hitting the liver for conversion. It's diluted quite a bit.

    With edibles, especially lipids, your cannabinoids are pretty much concentrated into the oil which doesn't get processed until it gets to the duodenum. Your cannabinoids are then converted as a larger unit which provides the big boost of 11-hydroxy. We get that with the powder and with lecithin because they encapsulate the cannabinoids which protects them until they reach the designated areas.

    I have seen a few "OD's" from smoking but that was mainly in the old days. Some lightweight or noob would sit in with the "veterans" and couldn't handle the difference in potency. I've seen people's eyes roll up into their heads blinding them and they had to be escorted out. Vomiting and all the other aspects of a green out. Thai did that to a few. Thanks to the Air Force and the Vietnamese War, it was the real thing and could even do a number on a pro.

    I have a TLC test kit and have tested the powder to the best of my ability although I'm not real proficient at it but it came out pretty good. I was planning to use it to determine the degree of decarb on the citric acid extraction. Just_Cuz_06 (2015_10_01 04_32_03 UTC).gif
     
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  2. #22 otroo, Nov 21, 2020
    Interesting read so far I look forward to see where it all goes. Thanks for the information

    All the way from Idaho
     
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  3. #23 Ringodog, Nov 21, 2020
    Thanks for all the input @PsychedelicSam . I very much appreciate it.

    I am testing the powder today without smoking. I'm also going to make the run on the malted barley I have.

    I see a great opportunity for cannabis infused malt for those of us who brew our own beer. Between the effectiveness of the malt and the fermentation, I am very much hoping for a truley infused product with no oil slick, no separation and NO TASTE.

    Thanks again for all the input.
     
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  4. #24 PsychedelicSam, Nov 22, 2020
    I used some of my powder in a milk shake this evening, a few hours ago, and I must say that I am feeling alright. I had made this with 2.1g of shatter, 18g of oils and 16g of tapioca maltodextrin, keeping the same 5:4 ratio. 1.2g of the infused powder was about 50mg, about half a tablespoon. I used a slightly rounded tablespoon. That's about 30% less than my dose for oil itself. Smoking a bowl of old roach dope before bed and it's setting the powder off again. I'll sleep well tonight. :smoking-banana:
     
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  5. #25 Ringodog, Nov 22, 2020
    OK, after extensive scientific study at great cost and numerous man hours and great consideration, I am prepared to release my summary conclusion. The wording may be a little advanced for some of you without a chemistry background.

    "Damn, 'dis fuckin' shit works"

    LOL. I hope that's not too advanced.

    I am impressed. Whoever discovered this and released it is A-OK in my book.

    I am still only about half way to where I want to be but I believe I am on the path.

    A couple comments on what I have discovered.

    Water Solubility: This stuff is anything but water soluble. The malt does absorb the oil quite well. However, when the malt is mixed with water, it seems to "release" the oil and I had an oil slick on every experiment. I think Sam hit the nail on the head, above, when he suggested something like a shake. I am big on protein shakes before I go to the gym and I think it would be perfect in something of that consistency. I had the same result in hot coffee. I will continue to try different liquids to see if one works better than another.

    I guess the important thing is, that the body sees it as a sugar carb and not a fat lipid. And, based on the quick onset I got, I would say that it is definitely seeing it as a sugar.

    Taste: I gag at the mere smell of cannabis edibles. I love the smell of pot smoke or vapor. But the smell and taste of canna-edibles totally makes me gag. So, your mileage may vary but I could still taste the cannabis in this experiment. HOWEVER, it is BY FAR the least offensive cannabis I have EVER consumed. So, I am thinking most people would find this, pretty much 'tasteless'. The smell was enough to set off my gag reflex. I fancy myself as something of a gourmet chef and I could make you the best portabello mushroom saute in the world and if you taste it with your nose up a donkey's butt, you know what it's going to taste like? .... Not mushroom. LMAO So, I am working on the taste and smell thing as well. It is very difficult to overwhelm the taste and smell of cannabis with any other spice or flavor.

    Potency: This is a tough one for me. My tolerance issues make this very difficult. However, I definitely noticed a buzz yesterday. Nice body rushes and I even got a little visual. This, coming from someone who kills over 6 pounds a year in pot all by himself. I am going to do dosing tests today and tomorrow so I will know more, then.

    Another test I ran yesterday was using the malt extract that I use to make beer, instead of the maltodextrin. I had similar, and actually a little better results with the malt extract. So, I am going to make a tiny batch of beer today. I plan to infuse the malt extract and then do the standard 1 hour boil with some malt and hops. I will ferment it for a couple weeks, then I will test it. Then, bottle condition it for 2 weeks. I see a couple hurdles of not having the oil separate during the boil and making sure the oil gets into the bottle.

    I am monitoring the current distillation test and that has another week or so. Although, I am not impressed with what I see so far. It appears the oil has separated.

    I also chilled a bottle of my cannabis apple cider last night. I will open that today and post some pics. I definitely DO NOT see any oil floating in it.

    Thanks again to everyone who helped put me on the path and special thanks to Sam. :)
     
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  6. #26 PsychedelicSam, Nov 22, 2020
    Did you use the lecithin in place of oil for your powder? If so then there was no apparent emulsification. That stuff tastes like crap, though. I use coconut oil and cocoa butter for mine and those are the only flavors I taste though they are quite strong. I've used mine in soup, in grits, mixed in to a smoothie, shake, nutella and yogurt, each with great results.

    I'll be interested in the citric acid project. I'm going to wait to see how yours turned out before I decide which one to try although I'm leaning towards the vinegar. :mellow:
     
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  7. #27 Ringodog, Nov 23, 2020
    No, I have not done the lecithin experiment yet. I did nothing today except eat what I made yesterday. LOL Oh, and got the Christmas tree ready to decorate.

    The citric acid test is going to be null. The flower, there's not enough there for me to even feel anything. The dry sift... maybe. I can test the rosin because those were 1/5 gram each. But, that's my minimum dose so I may or may not feel it. I miss my test panel of fans. LOL I had a handful of people that used to test my edibles for me. But, since the Corona party started, our band quit playing and I have not seen any of them. Sorry about that. I can take some pics of what it looks like if you want.

    There might be one option. The Duquenois test. However, if I remember right, that test worked on THCa as well as THC. The instructions required decarb'd weed for proper results. But, I am pretty sure that I remember doing a number of tests that showed it worked the same on decarb'd as non-decarb'd. I could run some simple tests but I don't have any acid or alcohol. I recently sold or gave away about everything I owned including my chem lab. I was just getting ready to move to sunny Southern California when the Corona party started and I got stuck here. I have a Home Depot nearby so I could run up and get the muiatic acid and denatured alcohol. Let me know if I can do anything for you.

    Tomorrow's plan is to the lecithin thing and to do your oil mix, word for word and try to titrate.

    I must say, of all the edible methods I have done in my life, this is definitely the least tasteful and most effective. I had 2 TBSP in one cup of coffee today and other then the fist couple sips, it was very tolerable.

    I am going to make a batch of beer next week. When I do, I'll save a couple hops pellets and make a tine, 2 bottle batch of cannabis beer using the malt extracts with cannabis.

    Great fun... :)
     
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  8. #28 PsychedelicSam, Nov 23, 2020
    I was mainly curious if you had seen the darkening of the citric extract over the days it sat like BKS shows. I have no idea what that is supposed to be indicative of, maybe the breakdown of the material so it's not gritty. I can't think of why it would increase potency or anything like that.

    The Duquenois test wouldn't the test for this. I just want to check if it's been decarbed. I can do that with a TLC plate. It'd be really easy with some bromocresol green but I don't have any of that. A full panel should give me an idea of potency and decarb although I admit to not having much luck figuring then converting the percentages. I downloaded a free student TLC Analyzer but it's all Greek to me right now.

    It looks like you've got something going with the fermentation. I've seen infused beer but never drank any. It should be possible. :sneaky:
     
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  9. #29 Ringodog, Nov 23, 2020
    I am going to do Sam's 5:4 recipe right now. Make sure I have this right. I have 1 gram of rosin, decarb'd and I added 1 tsp of coconut oil. So, that should weight 4.5 + 1 = 5.5 grams. 4.4 grams of maltodextrin measures out to about 1 TBSP.

    That's it?

    EDIT: OK, I Must have missed something. This is still liquid. At best, a soft paste. Definitely not a powder. And, definitely wouldn't sift like this. Did I miss something? Maybe your maltodextrin is different. Is 4.4 grams a little less than a TBSP?

    @PsychedelicSam
     
  10. #30 Ringodog, Nov 23, 2020
    Here are some pics of my citric acid tests.
    The 4 citric acid test I have going are:
    1. All 4 side by side.
    2. Citric acid and vinegar with ground flower
    3. Citric acid and vinegar with dry sift
    4, Citric acid and vinegar with rosin
    5. Citric acid and water with rosin.
     

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  11. #31 PsychedelicSam, Nov 23, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
    I only have used 8g of maltodextrin and it was close to a half cup by looking at it. It's very light. I had 10g oil and 8 maltodextrin and you can see in the video how much there was. Do you have a pic? You can add more until it's the right texture. Others have used the same ratio with good results. :huh:

    Sorry, I was out standing in line at the food bank for a few hours.
     
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  12. #32 PsychedelicSam, Nov 23, 2020
    Did you notice any darkening as it progressed? The rosin ones possibly unless that's how they started out. :mellow:
     
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  13. #33 PsychedelicSam, Nov 23, 2020

    4.4g.jpg 20201123_145327.jpg
    ​
    This is 4.4g of my tapioca maltodextrin. 1 tbsp is 1.75g, 4.4g about 2.5 tablespoons. Are you sure you measured correctly? That should have been plenty. :huh:
     
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  14. #34 Ringodog, Nov 24, 2020
    OK, I did a little reading and cleared it up. We are using different kinds of maltodextrin. Yours is made from tapioca grain and mine is made from wheat. You can also buy maltodextrin made from rice, corn, potatoes, whatever/starch. So, mine is a little more dense than yours. Just for shits and giggles, and to do some comparative testing, I ordered a bag of the stuff you are using. It will be here Friday.

    Meanwhile, I am going to eat what I made yesterday and make a new batch of lecithin and rosin. I wonder if I should add oil after adding the lecithin? Or, if I should just add the lecithin with no oil. Then, see how it mixes with the malt and then, water.

    I pressed out a few more grams of rosin so I can run a few more tests.
     
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  15. #35 Ringodog, Nov 24, 2020
    Just making notes: Split 1 gram rosin + 1 tsp coconut oil + 3 tbsp maltodextrin into 4 doses of 5.25 grams or approx 1 tbsp each. I took 1 dose 2 hours ago and it just hit me. I will take one more dose soon. That's about 1/2 gram of rosin which is my regular dose.

    Odd that it took so long to hit me.

    Questions. Why do we sift? Is double sifting better. Is any special size sift better than another?

    How well will this stuff compress? I am going to press a pill with a pollen press and see how it melts under my tongue.
     
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  16. #36 MIW, Nov 25, 2020
    Wow! thats a heavy dose. I stopped taking a 70mg canna capsule because i was high until the afternoon of the next day, lol. I probably average about 70mg per day. My current night time dose is 40mg. And your taking 187.5mg if im calculating right. 750mg for the rosin (based on dispensary averages) divided into 4 doses. Holy moly
     
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  17. #37 PsychedelicSam, Nov 25, 2020
    I was thinking that and that's why I specifically mentioned mine was tapioca. This one is specifically for oils according to the company. I guess they have different properties. I thought that Rick Simpson's patent used tapioca. Most of the videos I've watch have used tapioca. I knew there were others but hadn't really looked into it. it will be interesting to see the comparison.

    Modernist Pantry has all kinds of stuff including a variety of surfactants and other fancy things to make fancy things, "modern gastronomy" I believe it's called. :)
     
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  18. #38 PsychedelicSam, Nov 25, 2020
    The sifting is what turns it into a powder again instead of clumps and it makes a big difference with the tapioca. i use a standard kitchen strainer which seems to be the right size. I see a smaller sieve as clogging easier and not getting as consistent disbursement but a smaller particle size may help it dissolve better. A double sift might not be a bad idea.

    That pill idea is interesting. It should melt in your mouth. I might try that, too, if I can find something good to compress it with. Should taste like coconut and cocoa butter. :rolleyes:
     
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  19. #39 PsychedelicSam, Nov 25, 2020
    Duplicate
     
  20. #40 Ringodog, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
    I must say I'm a little disappointed in yesterday's trip. I tried to put all the powder in a single cup of water. It didn't mix well and after I drank it I noticed a lot of oily deposit left on the glass. I wiped it with my finger and did the old... "coke rub" on my gums. I didn't get a great buzz at all. It was more like an oil buzz. It came on over 2 hours after ingestion and it only lasted a few hours. I did notice an extra little bump every time I smoked a joint or bowl of hash. It didn't seem to enhance my vape sessions.

    Today, I did it a little different. This is the last dose (same as yesterday's) but I took it a little at a time over a couple hours in about 4 or 5 cups of coffee. It mixed much better with the hot coffee than with the cold water (DUH) but it still leaves some oil film. Today, I noticed a nice rush shortly after taking each dose (just took last bit and feeling it now) a nice little body rush. In water it still had some taste but not bad. In the coffee, it's more smell than taste.

    I am making beer today so I will set aside enough supplies to make 3 or 4 bottles of canna-beer with infused malt.

    If I have time, I am going to mix 1/2 gram of rosin with 1/2 tsp of lecithin and see what we get. I'll post some pics.

    I'll keep the thread updated with results. Thanks again

    Peace
     
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