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1st attempt at making Cannabis syrup - Potency needs work. Help Please!

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by bobtastic, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. #1 bobtastic, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
    Hi all,

    First post here so hello to everyone. I've been smoking and vaping weed for most of my life and I reached the point where I'm hoping to move towards drinking or eating as my way of consuming. Problem is I live in the UK so availability of edibles, oils or butter is not easy to buy or very expensive so I will have to make my own to make it sustainable. For this end, I bought a Nebula Boost which is a cheaper, more easily obtainable version of the Ardent Nova decarboxylator here in the UK. If you're not aware the Boost, both decarboxylates and infuses so is perfect for my needs and nicely restricts the smell.

    I decided my first infusion would be syrup and my first attempt was done like so. I took around a weeks worth of Ice Cream Wedding Cake which is around 3g or so (i'm not a heavy user). My thoughts were to make a syrup which I could mix into other drinks like tea or soft drinks. I found a basic recipe of this:

    1 cup water
    1 cup sugar
    2 tbsn vegatable glycerin

    The taste was very sweet as expected but this was ok since I wanted to make a concentrate I could use in other drinks so I settled on portions of 15ml for 7 servings based on my current usage, so this meant I only used 105ml of the solution I made.
    Earlier, I decarbed the weed for 1.5h at 230f. I put the weed and my syrup solution into a glass jar then into the Boost and set it to infuse for 2.5 hours at 162f. These timings were found on another site I've lost track of but I believe they were infusing coconut oil so not sure if my temperatures are right.
    I don't know why but after the program finished I repeated the infusion cycle for another 2.5 hours so it had a total of 5 hours infusing.

    My result was a nice golden syrup after straining which taste quite nice when I mixed one 15ml portion with a soft drink. My problem is that the potency doesn't feel like it would if i'd vaped it. I feel some effects I'm not sure, I expected a bit more.

    Can anyone provide me with some pointers on getting more potency out of my infusion? Also, is it worth reusing the weed I strained and infusing again into additional syrup?
     
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  2. #2 MIW, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
    I think your problem is from using glycerin. It's a poor extractor. You probably extracted very little. Cannabis oil is, well oil, glycerin is water based. Oils and alcohol extract much better.

    Better to use high proof alcohol to extract thc from your buds, evaporate most of the alcohol off and then mix with your syrup.

    Spend some time reading the tincture sticky threads above and there are some syrup threads you might find helpful as well. And welcome!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Welcome to the City.

    Sugar water won't extract cannabis at all.
    2 tablespoons of glycerin in that much water didn't do anything either.
    Net Extracting Zero.
    Net Infusing Zero.
    .
    Ethanol and Cooking Oil are the two most common Cannabis solvents. For a Syrup you'd make an Alcohol Tincture first then infuse the sugar with it.

    Oil I'd do direct infusing.

    Your weed is likely reusable as the boiling water didn't really do anything to it. Didn't extract any THC from it.

    3 grams isn't much. You need about 2 shot glasses worth of 190-151 proof everclear. (2 ounces)(60ml)
    Mix weed and booze for 15 seconds. Wring out the weed with a garlic press.
    Discard weed it's now useless.
    Now you have 2 ounces of Tincture.
    Try a 1/4 eyedroppers worth under your tongue. Water it down if the burn is to intense.

    BNW
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Oil you'd grind the weed to dust.
    Mix with enough cooking oil to make mud.
    Heat 220 F for 20 minutes.
    Done.
    3 grams = about 450mg of THC

    Can add the finished blob / Tablespoon of oil to the oil called for in a baked good like cookies or brownies and then add the dry bits (Flour) and cook at normal temp and time.

    BNW
     
  5. Ardent Cannabis, maker of Lift, Nova, and FX has some competition from Boost.

    This one is even cheaper.


    There are a few things that could've gone wrong.

    Your decarb was 50% too long, which reduced potency.
    For 230 F the correct decarb time is 1.0 hour.
    Most people here use 240 F for 40 min, but many decarbs are correct.

    Glycerin is a very poor solvent of cannabinoids, so you strained out much of the potency, probably over half.

    You infused for too long, which also destroys potency.
    I've experimented with Magical Butter Machine's 160 F for 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8 hours, and the 1 hour version was best. Even 162 F can destroy THC over many hours of time.

    Your dose was probably too small.
    Assuming your final volume was close to 2 cups = 475 mL, you used this to make 7 doses
    Fraction = 105 mL / 475 mL = 22%
    So each dose was 22% / 7 ~ 3% of the original THC in the 3 g herb.
    But the imperfect decarb, infusion, and straining probably get only 1/3 of this, so my estimate is that you ingested 1% of the original THC in 3000 mg herb.
    For excellent 20% THC herb, the total original THC is about 600 mg, and you ingested about 1% of that, which is 6 mg. I think this estimate is a bit too high.

    If 3.5 g herb lasts you for a week of smoking, then 20% thc herb is giving you about 100 mg thc per day.
    (0.2*3500mg/7).
    Gram for gram, edibles are more potent than smoke, so you could get by on less with edibles.

    If greater efficiency is wanted, then either don't strain out the herb, or strip off all the cannabinoids with 190 proof alcohol to make tincture or concentrated Cannabis Oil.

    Edit: BrassNwood posted while I was typing. You can't do better than his recipe.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. #6 ChiefRunningPhist, Mar 3, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
    Infusion/mixture potency is strictly grams of cannibinoids per ml volume. Mass per volume.
    Example:
    1.5g of 75% shatter added to 50ml of ethanol.
    1.5g × 0.75 ÷ 50ml = 2.25% (g/ml)


    Dry herb potency
    is strictly grams of cannibinoids per grams of bud. Mass per mass.
    Example:
    1.5g of cannibinoids in 10g of bud.
    1.5g ÷ 10g = 15% (g/g)


    Doseage is strictly the the mg of cannibinoids per serving. Mass per serving.
    Example:
    1.5g of 75% shatter dissolved into butter for 16 brownies.
    1.5g × 0.75 × 1000mg/g ÷ 16 = 70mg/brownie

    More Example:
    1/4cup of oil infused with 12g of 20% bud used for 30 gummies.
    Potency: 12g × 0.2 ÷ 59ml = 4% oil
    Doseage: 12g × 0.2 × 1000mg/g ÷ 30 = 80mg per gummy


    At the end of the day, your potency and your doseage will still be equal to grams of cannibinoids per ml volume, and/or grams of cannibinoids per unit serving, regardless what solvent was used or how much ect.

    Imo any sort of alcohol or petroleum based solvents are ideal for DIY (don't forget ice water extraction either, one of my personal favs). I'd recommend cold temp extracting with one of these solvents first, and then adding your newly created extraction to coconut oil or what have you later. If you keep track of the numbers and keep the definitions in mind then you'll be able to calculate your doseage and/potency as desired. Some infuse into an oil, some dissolve into alcohol, some leave the shatter/wax as is, but if you keep track of the numbers then you'll be able to calculate and produce edibles with the doseages you're after.

    @bobtastic
    Also, "volume" is meaning final volume. If you add a cup of salt or sugar ect to water, the total volume changes very little (in fact salt actually reduces volume!). When doing your potency or concentration calcs, the volume is the final volume of your cannibinoid product, as opposed to a sum of its parts.

    Make sure to use enough dry herb to achieve your desired effect. Imo edibles are like a more mild stonier and longer lasting high compared to equivalent amounts of cannibinoids consumed from inhalation. In other words, a bowls worth of weed will get me high if I smoke it, but if I washed a bowls worth of weed with alcohol and made it into an edible, the high is less noticeable but longer lasting, more body buzz. I think you may have run into this. I think you extracted almost 100% of your herb into the VG, considering the time duration, temp, and VG solubility. Perhaps look into emuslified MCT and lecithin. Both of these products improve the bodys ability to digest the extracts. Im not completely sure how well they will mix ect in soda pop, but adding a lil lecithin to my gummies or chocolates really makes a difference imo.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Wow thanks for the responses everyone. I'm at the very start of my infusing journey so all of your help is very much appreciated.

    Just a few questions though :

    1. Can I still put the now covered in sugar syrup weed from my first attempt in alcohol to wring the remaining thc out? If so, can I then just mix this in with the rest of the syrup I made?

    2. After making a tincture, to infuse into syrup do I just mix the tincture in with sugar and water solution or do I still need the glycerin?

    Thanks all!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. I enjoy the suggestion of the sugar infusion, gonna have to try and dry that out. Nice simplification with the garlic press too. I always love the fun things individuals do with their processes. Like recently learning masking tape on cuts help root in a cup of solution with no humidome or anything...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. I'm not sure how much more you're going to get after 5hrs at 165F. Maybe it will be significant, maybe it won't be. Im leaning towards most all was already extracted, but I obviously don't know for certain either. In any case it's only 3g of bud so don't fret too much either or.

    If you purge your extraction (evaporate all the solvent leaving only the cannibinoids behind) then you'll need to mix it with VG to get it to blend in water. If you keep the extraction as a alcohol based solution then you won't need VG. VG and alcohol are only used to make the cannibinoids soluble in water (obviously can be used to extract too).
     
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  10. Hi again,

    So it turns out that getting Everclear is very difficult or prohibitively priced. Other food grade alcohols are difficult to obtain too. If anyone can advise on this it would be much appreciated. I can easy get isopropyl alcohol but am uneasy with ingesting it.

    So my main aim when starting on this journey was to be able to ingest weed as opposed to smoking or vaping it. If infuse using oil such as coconut, is it still possible to turn this into a syrup to mix into drinks or anyone know of any recipes for nice drinks I can make with cannabis infused coconut oil?
     
  11. Any clear, high proof, drinking grade, alcohol will work.
    190 proof is best but a 151 will work.
    [​IMG]
    Polish 176 proof looks to be the best you can get in the UK.

    ISO and Denatured are both poison, toxic, cause death.

    BNW
     
  12. Thanks @BrassNwood

    I've manged to find a retailer and have a bottle of the 190 proof 95% alcohol polish vodka on its way!

    So I've had another infusing attempt, this time with coconut oil instead of sugar syrup.
    Here was my method:

    Decarbed 3g weed at 240f for 40mins
    Mixed the 100ml of coconut oil with the decarbed weed and infused at 160f for 1h. I wanted to infuse at 220f for 20 mins as with bnw's suggestion but the nebula boost has 30mins as minimum time so went with bkarnaze's timings above instead.
    Once done, I strained the mixture then repeated the process with the used weed with another 100ml of fresh coconut oil for the same timing and temp then mixed the two infused oils together giving me 200ml of infused coconut oil. I've attached some pics of what my result were.
    I'm about to put around 30ml into some green tea. Will let you know how it turns out!
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  13. #13 bkarnaze, Mar 6, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
    I like your method, and might try it myself.
    I've grown weary of removing alcohol from tincture.
    But I worry about what fraction of the medicine will get picked up.
    I've seen lab tests from Ardent Cannabis, maker of decarb devices, that show 80% efficiency when infusing 1 g decarbed cannabis into 1 fl oz oil, but that's very weak.
    The more cannabis is used, the more medicine gets wasted due to low solubility, for a fixed amount of oil.

    The 20 min @ 220 F is what I do for cookies that will get more infusion from baking.
    40 min is what I use for tinctures and non-baked edibles, but it probably doesn't matter much.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. [​IMG]
    This is BadKats recipe done with dry ice Kief
    [​IMG] 15 grams of Kief and 3 tablespoons of Coconut oil
    I make and take about a 1000 of these a year. :) and have for years.
    Strictly for medical reasons you understand.
    [​IMG]
    Decarb 240 F for 40 minutes

    5 grams decarbed Kief or Hash or powdered buds
    1 tablespoon Coconut oil
    1/2 teaspoon Lecithin
    Heat 220 F for 20 minutes
    Freeze (optional)
    Heat 220 F for 20 minutes (optional)
    Done

    Fills 30 (0) capsules @ 75mg Kief or Hash
    25 drops to a single 0 capsule.
    3mg per drop with Kief
    1mg per drop with powdered buds

    BNW
     
  15. So update....

    Last night I tried 30ml of coconut oil in a cup of green tea at around 7.30pm. Was not the most pleasant drink I've had to be honest. An oily tea is just weird, and actually made me feel quite queasy.
    I started to feel the effects about an hour or so later. Was quite light and pleasant at this point. At around 12am, some 4hours or so after I drank the tea the heavier affects kicked in. This was quite good as i felt nicely baked. Ended up going to bed around 1am.
    I woke up at 8.30am this morning and OMG more stoned than when I went to bed. Uncomfortably so, that I currently feel very nauseated and sick. I went to the bathroom and nearly collapsed on the floor.
    So, I'm taking the cannabis oil I made has the potency I was expecting when I started out. However, I had no idea the "stoneover" effects were so heavy or that it can take so long to kick in. It's 12.30pm the next day now and I'm still unable to get out of bed!
     
  16. Unusual but not unknown.
    I get a single good peak at the 90 minutes mark and then a gentle slow drop off for the next 6-8 hours.
    A few tokes off the pipe will boot the edible in the ass hard for an hour or so.

    BNW
     
  17. So it's now 5.30pm some 22 hours after I had the tea and i'm still feeling the effects but am fairly coherent again. One thing for sure is that I have the potency I was after, but I need to reduce my dose.
    I'm not keen on the tea so I looking to either make capsules as suggested above or turning the coconut oil into gummies.
    One thing: When I made infused the coconut oil I didn't add lecithin. Can I still heat the oil up and add some or is it now too late? Could the lack of lecithin be the reason why the weed took so long to kick in?

    Also, the other day I went back to my syrup and had 30ml mixed in with some soda. I had previously noticed affects when I had 15ml, but after doubling the dose I felt nothing. Does the potency decline in syrup after a few days?
     
  18. As long as the processing is short (20-30minutes) yes you can add Lecithin and cook again without degrading the THC.

    For some people daily dosing builds tolerance. On me with the capsules I make from Kief it stacks. By that I mean it keeps building in my system if used every day and I wind up past my comfort zone after about 5-7 days and I need to skip a day.

    BNW
     
  19. @BrassNwood thanks. So does the lecithin help with how quickly my body processes the coconut oil?

    Any idea how much I need to add to 170ml of coconut oil?
     
  20. Speed of stone onset is a function of the oil.
    Long chain cooking oils like olive, butter, bacon grease, all take about 2 hours.
    They require 45 minutes in your stomach with bile from the gall bladder to break down enough to move to the Liver for processing.
    Coconut and MCT oils both skip straight to your Liver and your stoned in about 45 minutes.

    What the Lecithin does is double the effects of the stone per mg used and triples the duration.

    BadKat's recipe calls for 1/6th the oil volume.
    1 tablespoon of oil. ( she really calls for 2.5 tablespoons )
    1/2 teaspoon Lecithin.

    More doesn't hurt but less or none just lacks the real punch it can have.

    BNW
     

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